> **“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God."** - Matthew5:8 **IMPORTANT NOTE:** We cannot add nor subtract any word from the bible. When Jesus said this beatitude, He said this promised to all the living not dead nor this promise can only be gain after death. Jesus did not said, *"Blessed are the pure of heart, for they will see God,* ***after death***." Archangel Gabriel have faculties to see the state of soul of every human being. Archangel Gabriel saw the majestic soul of Mary, and proclaimed that it was *"full of grace"*. Mary was seen having the most pure heart. > [**Mary: Woman of Most Pure Heart**](https://carmelite.org/spirituality/mary-woman-most-pure-heart/) > > As well as regarding Our Lady, the Blessed Virgin Mary, as patron of our Order, we Carmelites revere her under a number of special titles such as ‘Beauty of Carmel’, ‘Sister’, and ‘Woman of Most Pure Heart’. > > Purity of Heart (Puritas Cordis in Latin) is an important concept in Carmelite spirituality, and Mary is seen as its greatest exemplar and embodiment. For this reason medieval Carmelites were among the most fervent promoters of the doctrine of Mary’s ‘Immaculate Conception’, which was not formally proclaimed a dogma of the Catholic Church until 1854. > > Carmelites have always sought to imitate Mary in her purity of heart. The medieval Carmelite writer Felip Ribot said that the goal of the Carmelite life is to offer to God a holy heart purified from all stain of sin. The purpose of this is to achieve, by God’s grace, union with God. Mary, the Most Pure Virgin, is seen as the perfect model of one who was totally available for union with God. > > To explain the significance of purity from a Carmelite perspective, the Irish theologian Chris O’Donnell, O.Carm., uses the image of a milk jug. The purpose of a milk jug is to dispense milk. In order to do so properly, it must be clean; if the milk jug is dirty, then the milk will become infected. However, there is no point in the milk jug being clean simply for the sake of it; if the purpose of a milk jug is to dispense milk, then it can be as clean as you like but if it’s empty then it isn’t useful. This is an analogy of the human heart. Its purpose is to pour out love for others. If our hearts are impure, then what we ‘pour our’ to others will be infected. But there is no point is having a pure heart simply to leave it empty; the point of purity is not an end in itself but a means to be useful for others. > > This is what Carmelites mean by purity: having a heart undivided for God, free from our own motives and desires so that God’s will be done in us. Today’s society often associates ‘purity’ with puerile notions of sex. Carmel teaches us that purity is more a matter of the heart than the rest of the body. > > *Maria Purissima*, Mary Most Pure, is the great example of purity, in that her heart is totally given over to God and pours out love towards those around her. **Looking for Protestant Founders like Luther,Calvin, Zwingli, etc. also theologians and biblical scholars outside of Catholic Church, before reformation and early reformation era, who look upon the Blessed Virgin Mary as having a pure heart**." A citation from Protestant Founders and Theologians in harmony with Early Church and Church Fathers would be a perfect answer.

I’m seeking some theological and exegetical insight regarding the use of the word “appoint” in the New Testament passages about the establishment of elders (e.g. Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5). In many English translations, appoint can sound like a top-down decision made by a few leaders. However, the Greek terms involved (such as χειροτονέω and καθίστημι) seem to carry a broader sense related to recognition, commissioning, or placing someone into a role, often within a communal or ecclesial context. My question is this: Does the New Testament use of “appoint elders” necessarily imply a unilateral decision by church leaders, or does it presuppose some form of communal discernment, recognition, or confirmation by the local church? I would appreciate perspectives from biblical studies, church history, or different ecclesiological traditions.

One of the key differences between Catholicism and Protestantism is the practice of prayer to saints in heaven, which encouraged in Catholicism but absent in Protestantism. My question is, **according to Catholic teaching, when did this practice begin?** I can find many resources from Catholic sources arguing that it ancient Christians prayed to the saints, pushing the beginning back at least to the late 1st or early 2nd century. How much older they believe "at least" means is not clear. For instance, this article at Catholic Answers has a lengthy collection of quotes from the Fathers, the earliest of which cited is Shephard of Hermas. However, it doesn't say when this practice actually began. They give a Biblical argument for its legitimacy, but nowhere claim that any of the Biblical figures *actually did* pray to deceased saints in heaven. So, I can think of several possibilities for the origin that are consistent with that: * It was first practiced by the early church shortly after the Apostles. * It was first practiced by the Apostles after the ascension of Christ, as an inference from his teachings and revelation from the Holy Spirit. * It was explicitly affirmed by Jesus to the Apostles while he was on the earth. * It was already practiced prior to the Incarnation. The last of these is the most interesting. If it's a pre-Incarnation practice, how far back does it go? Might Noah have prayed to Seth, for instance? Or is it an intertestamental development? Or somewhere in between? *Please note I am **not** asking about any of the following:* 1. Critical perspectives on the origin of prayers to saints. (I want a Catholic perspective.) 2. The idea that the saints in heaven pray for people still on Earth. (That's something Protestants generally accept; the point of difference is whether *we* should invoke *them*, not whether they're praying for us.) 3. The theological foundations of the intercession of the saints. (I want to know when it began to *actually be practiced by the Church,* not when it could have been theoretically valid.) 4. Anything related to prayers to angels. (I'm specifically asking about prayer to human beings in heaven.) 5. Prayers on behalf of the deceased, such as 2nd Maccabees 12:42-46. (There's a significant difference between praying *to* and praying *for* the deceased—in the former case the living are communicating directly with the dead while in the latter they are not.)

Searching from different bible translations, I had looked deeply into Douay-Rheims version. > "And she entered into the house of Zachary, and saluted Elizabeth." - Luke 1:40 From this passage, we can see that it ends with a period. This event is finished. A casual greetings can be inferred on this passage and nothing much, it's like Mary saying "Hi! or Hello!" to Her cousin Elizabeth, who knew nothing, about what happened to Mary in the annunciation and Her, having conceived the Messiah. Moving on to next verse... > And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? - Luke1:41-43 The word ***"and it came to pass"***, meaning, this event is separated from v.40, where the casual greetings occured. This salutation is much different, it delivered a profound effect on the child in the very womb of Elizabeth, who never knew the Blessed Virgin Mary. The greeting in v. 40 compare to v. 41 can be seen as two separate events. Luke described that it was Elizabeth who heard the salutation and not the infant in her womb. Elizabeth was overjoyed, cried out in a loud voice...this unexplainable feelings was then felt by the child in her womb, that made the infant leaped, as if he shared in the joy that Elizabeth her mother was experiencing at that very moment, that made him leaped. Could it be, that the ***"greetings or salutation"*** that Elizabeth heard at that moment from Mary while praying, is the **Magnificat**. Hearing the words from the Magnificat, was the cause, and the instrument that made her filled with the Holy Spirit. Because Mary's Magnificat was uttered, having overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, the very words of Mary are inspired by the Holy Spirit, to praise the Father in spirit and truth. Elizabeth heard Mary's Canticle, and had realized that Mary was pregnant with the Messiah, and hearing Mary saying, ***"All generations shall call me blessed..."***, Elizabeth reacted,and she is the first one who praised Mary, saying ***"blessed are you among women..."***, and also the first one who proclaimed ***"Jesus is Lord"*** by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, recognizing, the child as her Lord, the way she knew the Lord as the chosen People of God, addressed God in the Old Testament. John the Baptist in Luke1:15 had been prophesied to be filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb of his Mother, and Luke's gospel described the moment, how it happened in v.44 > *For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.* - Luke 1:44 From the discernment above, we can see that the *"greetings"* in Luke 1:40 is different from the *"greetings"* in Luke1:41, the two greetings are a separate event. The other is obviously a casual greeting and the other is a mysterious greetings. In view of the above, I am looking for a commentary or writings from Catholic sources or Christian sources,biblical even extra-biblical showing that the "greetings" in Luke 1:40 and Luke 1:41 is a separate event and different from each other. Elizabeth didn't need to hear Mary's Magnificat to know that she was pregnant with the Lord. Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, who was perfectly capable of conveying that knowledge. Elizabeth's intuition was very manifest here.

At the beginning, the apostles gave the teachings of Jesus Christ to the people, and the communities continued their lives, occasionally meeting to talk about God and / or to perform the Eucharist. And then the next historical information is that there were churches, and priests structured hierarchically with ranks like in armies and so on. So, when was the transition done from "people changing their lives according to the teachings of Jesus Christ" to full fledged religion with temples (churches) and priests? As far as I know Jesus: - came to fulfill the (existing) law, not to cancel it or its prophets (Matthew 5:17) - sent the apostles to teach - did not send anyone to administrate / organize anything (food, widows...) - did not command anyone to build any temple (church) - did never show any love towards priests and other "spiritual" leaders.

According to Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, which Apostle is believed to have celebrated the Eucharist first? The question is quite simple. Is there any tradition of any apostle in particular who is believed to be the first to say mass, following the Resurrection of Christ? I am not overly confident that such a traditional belief exist within either Eastern Orthodoxy or Catholicism! One may use references from Sacred Scriptures, the Early Church Fathers or other sources if applicable like the writings of recognized Christian mystics, like Catherine of Siënna to help find an answer.

In the Acts of the Apostles we find that the early believers were every day visiting the temple and afterwards meeting in each others homes. >Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. (Acts 2:46-47, NIV) If the Old ceremonial ways of the Old Testament were finished at the death of Christ (or as other conjecture after Pentecost) why did the church still attend temple gatherings? Was it because they were not fully aware of the full implication of the New Covenant and may have even offered sacrifices? Was it because they just wanted to get together and evangelize their brethren? Was it some mishmash of both reasons plus possibly more? What was going on in their heads?

I fell down a rabbit hole regarding Origen, and Wikipedia notes this interesting event that caught my eye: > In 399, the Origenist crisis reached Egypt.[1] Theophilus of > Alexandria was sympathetic to the supporters of Origen[1] and the > church historian, Sozomen, records that he had openly preached the > Origenist teaching that God was incorporeal. In his Festal Letter > of 399, he denounced those who believed that God had a literal, > human-like body, calling them illiterate "simple ones". A > large mob of Alexandrian monks who regarded God as anthropomorphic > rioted in the streets. According to the church historian Socrates > Scholasticus, in order to prevent a riot, Theophilus made a sudden > about-face and began denouncing Origen. In the year 400, > Theophilus summoned a council in Alexandria, which condemned Origen > and all his followers as heretics for having taught that God was > incorporeal, **which they decreed contradicted the only true and > orthodox position, which was that God had a literal, physical body > resembling that of a human**.[a] Was "God is corporeal" the orthodox position in the early church, and if yes, how long? As far as I understand, modern day christians for the most part regard God as incorporeal, right?

Are there ancient writers that mentions halos/nimbus: from 1-8 century? 1. How was the halo adopted in the church? And what is its historicity? 2. I read from some sources that in the beginning it was reserved only for the Lord but in later time it was depicted on saints. 3. Did anyone wrote anything about it? Thanks in advance. ........................................................................... **UPDATE** I found only this - > “Marcus Servius Honoratus (Servius the Grammarian), a Roman grammarian of the late 4th century, > in his commentary on Virgil's works defines the Nimbus as a "divine > cloud" ("nimbo effulgens: nube divina, est enim fulgidum lumen quo > deorum capita cinguntur. Sic etiam pingi solet" - Servianorum in > Vergilii Carmina commentariorum / Ed. E. K. Rand. Lancaster, 1946. > Vol. 2. P. 471). The Latin theologian Isidore of Seville in his > Etymologies mentioned the Nimbus as a radiance around the heads of > angels (Isid. Hisp. Etymol. XIX 32. 2).” https://www.pravenc.ru/text/2577657.html **The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville (c. 560-636 AD?):** > **The light that is depicted as being around the heads of angels is > called a nimbus,** although a nimbus is also the dense part of a cloud > (nubis). 3.Ahood (capitulum) is commonly called a capitulare. This is > also called a cappa (i.e. another word for ‘hood,’ or perhaps > ‘kerchief’), because it has two tips like the letter kappa, or because > it is an ornament for the head (caput). >**(Isid. Hisp. Etymol. XIX 32. 2)** **(Page 404 in the pdf)** https://sfponline.org/Uploads/2002/st%20isidore%20in%20english.pdf ------------------------------- Are there maybe church fathers that talk about it or other persons besides from Marcus Servius Honoratus and Isidore of Seville? Additional information about the halo. https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/112600/do-the-catholic-orthodox-believe-that-the-halo-is-apostolic-unwritten-traditio

According to the catholic and orthodox, is this apostolic unwritten tradition or adopted pagan tradition as mentioned by newadvent website? If it is adopted pagan tradition, then this means that other pagan traditions could be incorporated in the church? Do they fall under the anathema of the 7 ecumenical council, since these traditions are unwritten? If this is the case, would there be apostolic unwritten traditions and pagan unwritten traditions in the church as unwritten traditions? How should this be understood? ------------------------------------------- > **Second Council of Nicaea – 787 A.D. ( 7th ecumenical council):** > >If anyone rejects any written or unwritten tradition of the church, let > him be anathema. - [Second Council of Nicaea – 787 A.D.](https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum07.htm) > **2 Thessalonians 2:15** > >Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and **hold the traditions** which ye have been taught, **whether by word, or our epistle**. > >https://biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/2-15.htm ---------------------------------------- > > **1 Corinthians 4:6** > >Now these things, brothers, I have applied to > myself and Apollos for your sakes, **so that in us you may learn not to > go beyond what is written**, so that no one of you will become puffed up > on behalf of one against the other. > > https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/4-6.htm --------------------------------------- > **2 Cor 6:14-18** > >14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with > unbelievers: **for what fellowship hath righteousness with > unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And > what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that > believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of > God with idols?** for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath > said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, > and they shall be my people. **17 Wherefore come out from among them, > and be ye separate,** saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; > and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall > be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. ---------------------------------------------- > **Deut. 12:30-31** > >30 **Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them**, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and > that thou inquire not after their gods, **saying, How did these nations > serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so > unto the LORD thy God:** **for every abomination to the LORD, which he > hateth, have they done unto their gods;** for even their sons and their > daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. -------------------------------------------- This information is from the internet, I can not guarantee how accurate it is. But it seems that most if not all fake "gods" had halos before the Christian iconography? **Pagan:** **(Content notice: This post contains depictions of nudity that may be visible on the photos of the pagan mosaics.)** (2nd c. AD) Dionysos, Nike & Maenad (Bakche) - Zeugma mosaic - Triumph of Dionysus (Gaziantep Museum - Turkey) This pavement comes from the House of Poseidon. 1.https://www.flickr.com/photos/28433765@N07/50616496196 2.https://pbase.com/dosseman/dionysostriumf 3.https://pbase.com/dosseman/image/170042225 4.https://pbase.com/dosseman/daedalus ---------------------------------------------- (Naked!) (circa 3rd-4th c. AD.) A ROMAN MARBLE MOSAIC PANEL Depicting the goddess Venus rising from the sea, supported by two tritons, both with a human torso, equine legs and a fish-tailed lower body, the goddess haloed, holding a mirror in her left hand and a cosmetic applicator in her right, nude but for a mantle wrapped around her hips and legs, coiled bracelets on each wrist, a fish in the lower corners. 1.https://tr.pinterest.com/pin/1121607482184251399/ 2.https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-1818486 --------------------------------------------------------------- (3rd - 4th century) Mosaic from the House of Menander with Zeus. Room 20, Panel A (Seattle Art Museum) - (Daphne, suburb of Antioch, Antakya) (limestone and marble tesserae) 1.https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/roman/mosaic-from-the-house-of-menander-with-zeus-3rd-4th-century-limestone-and-marble-tesserae/limestone-and-marble-tesserae/asset/6348234 2.https://antiochmuseumofart.org/house-of-menander/ 3.https://www.flickr.com/photos/mharrsch/22214048901/in/pool-ancient_mosaics_in_turkey/ https://www.meisterdrucke.ie/similar/943506.html ------------------------------------------------ (2nd-3rd c. AD,) Roman mosaic showing Apollo and Daphne, (Princeton University Art Museum) --------------------------------------------------------------- (Naked)“The Triumph of Neptune,” a late 2nd century CE mosaic from La Chebba, Tunisia. The central scene depicts a bearded Neptune riding in a chariot pulled by sea horses; he is flanked by his sons Triton and Proteus. The corners of the mosaic feature women and agricultural scenes representing the four seasons. As bringer and withholder of water, Neptune would have held agency over seasonal change. Bardo National Museum, Tunis, Tunisia https://mythopedia.com/topics/neptune/ https://smarthistory.org/mosaic-decoration-at-the-hammath-tiberias-synagogue/ --------------------------------------------------------------- (Naked) One of the mosaic panels located in the museum of the city of Shebha in southern Syria. Each panel recounts ancient Greek myths introduced by the Romans in the mid-third century AD. This panel depicts Aphrodite and Oris, the goddess of beauty. The panel depicts women and the goddess of love competing to win the weapons of the goddess Oris. The panel is decorated with inscriptions, ornaments, and numerous aesthetic motifs that illustrate the myth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahba ------------------------------------------------------------------- (123 AD) Roman mosaic of Hunting goddess Diana found in the (baths of Oceanus at Sabratha built in 123 AD) https://x.com/libyanhistory/status/873175058302324736 https://caffetteriadellemore.forumcommunity.net/?t=47244810 https://www.temehu.com/Cities_sites/museum-of-sabratha.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------- (Naked) Triumph of Poseidon and Amphitrite, showing the couple in procession. Detail of a large Roman mosaic from Cirta, Roman Africa (c. 315–325 AD, now at the Louvre) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune_%28mythology%29 ---------------------------------------------------- Hatay Archaeological Museum, Antakya, Turkey. Artemis, the fierce goddess of the hunt This mosaic of Artemis was discovered in the ancient city of Issus. It was found in the tepidarium of a bathhouse in the city. The 43-square-meter mosaic floor dates from Late Antiquity (3rd and 4th centuries AD). At the center of the mosaic is the goddess Artemis, ruler of the wild, and around her are figures of animals and plants. https://chroniquescynegetiques.com/2024/10/03/artemis-la-farouche-deesse-de-la-chasse/ -------------------------------------------------------- (Naked) Aion enthroned, holding a zodiac wheel in his right hand, a scepter in his left, his head surrounded by a holo or aura [3rd cent AD] - Arles, Musée de l'Arles antique - wm Aion (Greek: Αἰών) is a Hellenistic deity associated with time, the orb or circle encompassing the universe, and the zodiac. The "time" represented by Aion is unbounded, in contrast to Chronos as empirical time divided into past, present, and future. He is thus a god of eternity, associated with mystery religions concerned with the afterlife, such as the mysteries of Cybele, Dionysus, Orpheus, and Mithras. Source: wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aion_(deity) --------------------------------------------------- A grand mosaic of Isis and Serapis, Roman early 3rd century https://www.pinterest.com/pin/341288477982180030/ Roman mosaic depicting Isis and Serapis (3rd cent. AD) https://the-avocado.org/2018/03/05/navigium-isidis-an-ancient-religious-festival/ https://medium.com/@ancient.rome/why-are-greek-roman-and-norse-mythologies-so-similar-8bb530da993c Emperor Septimius Severus (193–211 AD) as Serapis and his wife Julia Domna as Isis on a mosaic from Huwara, Egypt. Altes Museum, Berlin. Early 3rd century AD. https://www.augustaraurica.ch/assets/content/files/publikationen/Magazin-AR/AR-2017_2_Isis-Fortuna_Ruetti.pdf Roman mosaic depicting Isis and Serapis (3rd cent. CE) https://cjapedia.com/happy-navigium-isidis-march-5 ------------------------------------------------------- Niche with a polychrome mosaic of Silvanus Excavated in 1861 in the Palazzo Imperiale, in a room next to the mithraeum. Date: reign of Commodus or Septimius Severus. W. 0.87, h. 1.57, h. of Silvanus 0.71. With text OSTIAE EFFOS ANNO MDCCCLXI. In front of the niche a lamp for two wicks was found, perhaps inv. nr. 625. A relief of Silvanus was found nearby. Inv. nr. 10729. Benndorf-Schöne 1867, nr. 551. Arachne 20773. Photo: SO IV, Tav. 211. https://www.ostia-antica.org/museums/mus-vm-ml-silvanus.htm ------------------------------------------------ **Considered Christian:** (7th c. AD) - (634-730 AD) - Saint Demetrius of Thessaloniki. (Hagios Demetrios - Thessaloniki - Greece). Votive mosaic representation from the 7th century on the northeast pillar of the church. The basilica is famous for six extant mosaic panels, dated to the period between the latest reconstruction and the inauguration of the Byzantine Iconoclasm in 730. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagios_Demetrios https://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/en/img_C233a.html https://www.flickr.com/photos/60661697@N07/51241589472/in/pool-ancientgreece/ St. Demetrius. 7th century. Basilica of St. Demetrius, Thessaloniki. Mosaics on the pillars at the entrance to the altar and on the western wall of the main nave https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/rheb/rheb_mp.htm#1 -------------------------------------------------------- (No beard)(the end of 4th c. AD - the beg. of 5th c. AD) - (Christ)(Church of the Savior of the Latomou Monastery (Church of Hosios David)), (Thessaloniki, Greece). Mosaic with Christ and probably with Saints Peter and Paul on the sides - Lazarev attributes these mosaics to the end of the 5th beginning of the 6th century of the contemporary period to the Theodoric period connecting them to the mosaics of the basilica Sant'Apollinare Nuovo in Ravenna. 1.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Hosios_David 2.https://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/rheb/rheb_mp.htm#1 3.https://ru.pinterest.com/anastasyatatarn/chiesa-del-salvatore-del-monastero-di-latomou-chie/ https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312236388 https://flickr.com/photos/28433765@N07/15338085684/in/pool-2740017@N23/ Jesus Christ in glory. Mosaic in conch apses. End of 5— beginning of 6 th. c AD https://www.pravenc.ru/text/2581611.html https://ru.pinterest.com/pin/223843043962682817/ --------------------------------------- Justinian I AR Light Miliarense. Constantinople mint. Struck 527-537 AD. D N IVSTINIANVS P P AVG, pearl diademed, draped, cuirassed bust left / GLORIA ROMANORVM, Justinian, nimbate, standing facing, head left, raising hand and holding globe; star in right field; mintmark COB. DOC I 26. https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/byz/justinian_I/t.html -------------------------------------------- St. Aquilin Chapel, (4th c. AD ? Beg.of the 5th c. AD) mosaic. (No beard, short hair) https://www.flickr.com/photos/roger_joseph/5417358183/ https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312171522 Christ teaching the Apostles , Late4th century https://art.kunstmatrix.com/en/artwork/1882721/christ-teaching-apostles ------------------------------------------- Angelic Ranks (Dominions and Powers). Mosaic of the 7th century. Church of the Dormition of the Virgin Mary. Nicaea. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312783865 Heavenly Powers. Mosaic of the Church of the Dormition of the Blessed Virgin Mary. 7th century? (7 c. AD?, 9 c. AD?) (2 sources 7c. AD and 1 source 9.c. AD) (9. C AD) https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/ikona/iskusstvo-vizantii-4-15-vekov/4 (7 c. AD) https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://www.pravenc.ru/text/200147.html ---------------------------------------- Santa Costanza in Rome. End of the 4th c. AD. The Mausoleum of Costanza (Constantina) (VIII) This 4th-century mausoleum was built under Constantine the Great for his daughter Constantina (Costanza), who died in 354 AD. His other daughter, Helena, is also buried here. The mosaics on the ambulatory vaults are an excellent example of late antique and early Christian art. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312171210 https://www.flickr.com/photos/isawnyu/7556340750 https://www.mediastorehouse.com/search.html?search=ancient+halo ----------------------------------------- Mural painting of Jesus Christ from the catacomb of Commodilla. Rome, late 4th century. The symbols on either side are Alpha and Omega. Remember that the Christ is "beginning and end." Revelation 22, 13: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312138059 https://diglib.library.vanderbilt.edu/diglib-fulldisplay.pl?SID=20250124369513274&code=act&RC=49950&Row=109 --------------------------------------------- Mosaic of Orans and Donors (5th-6th century) Church of St. Demetrius - Thessaloniki - Greece. Wall mosaics from the small north colonnade in the Church of St Demetrius Thessaloniki, saved from the fire of 1917, 5th-6th c. Museum of Byzantine Culture, Thessaloniki, Greece https://www.thebyzantinelegacy.com/demetrios-thessaloniki -------------------------------------------- Santa Pudenziana in Rome. 390AD - (401-417) AD The 4th century Basilica di Santa Pudenziana contains some fine mosaics, including this one in its apse. I gather that it is the earliest Christian mosaic to be found anywhere in Rome (it dates from 390). As the excellent Cadogan guide to Rome says, 'artists had yet to decide on the familiar iconography of the saints; here all have become honorary Roman citizens ... in their senatorial togas'. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312171270 https://www.flickr.com/photos/24151047@N05/47846198011 https://my-passion.blog/2018/11/29/oldest-paintings-of-jesus/ ------------------------------------------------- The Good Shepherd. Mid-5th century. Mausoleum of Galla Placidia, Ravenna. Mosaic in the lunette Лазарев 1986 - История византийской живописи. Т. 2. OCR hires #21.pdf https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://vk.com/photo-35220730_312236302 The Good Shepherd , c 425 AD Mausoleum of Galla Placidia, Ravenna, Italy https://art.kunstmatrix.com/en/artwork/1882044/good-shepherd https://my-passion.blog/2018/11/29/oldest-paintings-of-jesus/ https://byzantinenews.blogspot.com/2014/02/cfp-miracles-and-wonders-in-antiquity.html https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/ikona/iskusstvo-vizantii-4-15-vekov/1 ---------------------------------------------------- Baptism of Christ and the Twelve Apostles. Mid-5th century. Orthodox Baptistery, Ravenna. Mosaics in the dome Лазарев 1986 - История византийской живописи. Т. 2. OCR hires #21.pdf pg. 32 https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 Domed Mosaic Ceiling , 547 AD Basilica of San Vitale, Ravenna, Italy. https://art.kunstmatrix.com/en/artwork/1882765/domed-mosaic-ceiling Ravenna. Mosaic in Baptistery of Neon. 5th century. Baptism of Jesus. Italy. https://www.alamy.com/ravenna-mosaic-in-baptistery-of-neon-5th-century-baptism-of-jesus-italy-image238557621.html https://www.flickr.com/photos/35409814@N00/11904625526/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/60661697@N07/17795977821/in/pool-1307009@N23/ -------------------------------------------- (River “god”? to left?) Arian Baptistery in Ravenna. Late 5th-early 6th c. AD. Mosaics in the dome https://www.icon-art.info/bibliogr_item.php?id=21 https://www.flickr.com/photos/bobbex/52646912056 https://flickr.com/photos/27305838@N04/15953924945/in/pool-2740017@N23/ ------------------------------------------------------ (Dark skin) 526-530 AD.Christ - Church of Santi Cosma e Damiano. Rome. https://vk.com/photo-35220730_313024499 https://israelandpalestinediary.blogspot.com/2015/12/was-jesus-palestinian-or-was-jesus.html ------------------------------------------------------ Jesus Christ flanked by Saints Peter and Paul · Catacombs of Saints Peter and Marcellinus, Rome, 4th century AD. https://my-passion.blog/2018/11/29/oldest-paintings-of-jesus/ Christ between Saint Peter and Saint Paul, above four martyrs worshiping the Mystic Lamb, 4th century (dome of the Catacombs of the Saints Peter and Marcellinus, Rome). https://arsartisticadventureofmankind.wordpress.com/2014/07/07/early-western-christian-art-during-the-iiird-ivth-and-vth-centuries-the-painting-of-the-catacombs/ ----------------------------------- Year of Object(s) Creation: 550 A.D. (approximate) Provenience Nation: Cyprus Provenience Location: Church of the Panayia Kanakaria Year Removed from Findspot: 1975 (approximate) https://research.cgu.edu/cultural-property-disputes-resource/cpdr/church-of-panagia-kanakaria-mosaics/ ---------------------------------- **Sources:** 1. In early Christian art the nimbus certainly is not found on images of God and celestial beings, but only on figures borrowed from profane art, and in Biblical scenes; 2. Hence it follows that the Bible furnished no example for the bestowal of a halo upon individual saintly personages. 3. As a matter of fact the nimbus, as an inheritance from ancient art tradition, was readily adopted and ultimately found the widest application because the symbol of light for all divine, saintly ideals is offered by nature and not infrequently used in Scripture. 4. The nimbus of early Christian art manifests only in a few particular drawings, its relationship with that of late antiquity. 5. In the first half of the fourth century, Christ received a nimbus only when portrayed seated upon a throne or in an exalted and princely character, but it had already been used since Constantine, in pictures of the emperors, and was emblematic, not so much of divine as of human dignity and greatness. 6. The number of personages who were given a halo increased rapidly, until towards the end of the sixth century the use of symbols in the Christian Church became as general as it had formerly been in pagan art. https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11080b.htm ---------------------------------------------------- 1. NIMB (from Latin nimbus – cloud) – a glow around the head – as a sign of divine power, originated in the East. In Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia, deities were depicted with a solar disk above their heads or with rays coming out of their heads. Later in Ancient Greece, the god of light Apollo and the god of the sun Helios began to be depicted with a radiant halo around their heads. The pagan halo is a symbol of the shining sun, divine flame, sacred light. 2. THE IDEA OF THE CHRISTIAN HALO was formed only in the 4th century. In Christianity, the halo is a symbol of participation in the essence of the One God. Since "God is light" (1 John 1:5), the halo is part of this light. The halo reveals the essence of Christ as the Heavenly Light revealed to the world. On the vault of the cubicle of Leo in the catacombs of Commodilla is one of the first images of Christ with a halo around his head. This fresco dates back to the second half of the 4th century. Jesus Christ. Second half of the 4th century. Fresco. Catacombs of Commodilla, Rome. 3. In the iconography of Angels, the halo becomes a mandatory attribute in the 5th century. 4. The nimbuses of the Apostles and saints appear only at the end of the 5th century. 5. A cross-shaped (cross-shaped) halo is a round halo with a cross placed inside it, which symbolizes the atoning sacrifice of Christ in the name of saving humanity. Among the earliest known images of Christ with a cross-shaped halo is a bas-relief from a sarcophagus of Constantinople origin from the beginning of the 5th century, depicting Christ with the apostles. The relief is poorly preserved, but traces of the crossbars of the cross can be seen on the halo. 6. By 6 th. c. AD the cross on the nimbus of Christ becomes almost mandatory. Ovchinnikov A. N. Symbolism of Christian Art. – M.: Rodnik, 1999. Pp. 10–19. https://dzen.ru/a/ZXl5T1_d5C72wmOv -------------------------------

Why do we see swastika in many early Christian churches? Swastika is considered pagan symbol bearing (prosperity and good luck). There are many pagan mosaics and other in Europe that have swastika, from the Romans, Greeks, Thracians etc. How was the pagan symbol adopted, and what does it mean in Christianity? Does any of the church fathers talk about that it is allowable to take pagan traditions / symbols and convert them to Christian with new meaning? I have heard that Basil the great has said something, but I don't know where to look to find what he have said. There are many more churches with swastikas and other pagan symbols that where probably borrowed from the pagans. [Swastika (Wikipedia)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika) What does the catholic, orthodox and protestants say about this? Does anyone state that the apostles used these symbols, and learned the people to use them by oral tradition? And what is the reason, will we not look very similar to the pagans if we use their symbols. If the pagans served demons using these signs, where these signs not inspired by the demons that learned the people to serve them by using these signs? How should this be understood? Thanks in advance. There seems to be a church or prayer hall dated 241AD where we can see swastika in it - Church at Megiddo The Ancient Church at Megiddo The house was built around 231 ce and its adaptation for use as a church can be securely dated to 240/241 ce. The Megiddo church would be contemporaneous with this building. Indeed, its construction, on the chronology suggested by Tepper, would predate the Christianizing renovation at Dura Europos by about a decade. The earliest Christian inscriptions that can be dated with some level of confidence stem from the third century ce and later.36 The floor inscriptions at Megiddo would thus rank among the oldest epigraphic data for Christianity.37 The Akeptous inscription would probably offer the earliest epigraphic occurrence of nomina sacra,38 and one of the earliest inscriptional references to Jesus Christ.39 And the mosaic floor itself would be a very rare instance of a pre-Constantinian Christian mosaic.40 If dated towards the end of the third century ce and especially after 313 ce, its significance would diminish, but it would still constitute valuable material evidence for ancient Christianity. [The Ancient Church at Megiddo: The Discovery and an Assessment of its Significance](https://2024.sci-hub.st/3600/018178562bf6388f4cfcc2ae31062ecb/adams2008.pdf) [he Mosaics in the Early Christian Basilica](https://www.academia.edu/figures/13123117/figure-10-mosaic-in-the-nave-detail-photo-by-author-misko) **5th c. AD** [Basilica of Bezistan](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Basilica+of+Bezistan/@41.1115081,20.0820876,-7a,46.5y/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sCIHM0ogKEICAgICM4v6MogE!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2Fgps-cs-s%2FAC9h4nrNLmhkUvh19_R8pwBsGqVrvQAccAZkSIkUEcjuWQCHgxoki9La06ozGPuCEr9abeoLqcZKSQGP8PqO3lagdCqqwORVLMTcv75bK8DJn1JfMnjzhYKIPFIthuCkhBBe5TOeNh18qA%3Dw203-h151-k-no!7i4032!8i3016!4m11!1m2!2m1!1sPaleochristian+Basilica+!3m7!1s0x13504252132b80ff:0xf42f7dbed22221b2!8m2!3d41.1123356!4d20.0816528!10e5!15sChdQYWxlb2NocmlzdGlhbiBCYXNpbGljYVoZIhdwYWxlb2NocmlzdGlhbiBiYXNpbGljYZIBE2hpc3RvcmljYWxfbGFuZG1hcmuaASRDaGREU1VoTk1HOW5TMFZKUTBGblNVUjZlbEI2YUd0blJSQUKqAVwQASobIhdwYWxlb2NocmlzdGlhbiBiYXNpbGljYSgAMh4QASIa-Ru4kMrII6__LK6712EEuiYlpxWUOYQE-W8yGxACIhdwYWxlb2NocmlzdGlhbiBiYXNpbGljYeABAPoBBAgSEBk!16s%2Fg%2F11glw_f49c?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDkxNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D) Early Christian Basilica church at Delphi The foundations and the mosaics of the narthex and the aisles of a late 5th – early 6th c. AD Christian Basilica were found in the place now occupied by “Apollo Hotel”. https://thedelphiguide.com/early-christian-basilica-church-at-delphi/ https://www.discoveringkos.com/destination-item/early-christian-basilica-of-palaiopanayia/ https://archaeologyinbulgaria.wordpress.com/2015/04/02/archaeologists-discover-hand-from-huge-roman-statue-at-early-christian-site-in-bulgarias-sandanski/#:~:text=The%20Bishop%27s%20Basilica%20is%20the,Operational%20Program%20%E2%80%9CRegional%20Development%E2%80%9D Jerash Church of Marianos - built in 570 AD under the episcopate of Bishop Marianos ========================================================= In pagan cultures: Some statements by some sites. The information needs to be checked. The association of the swastika with deities is certainly seen during the Geometric and Orientalising periods. In the Geometric period, we certainly have evidence for the existence of the Olympian Pantheon, ranging from shrines to Zeus, Apollo, Demeter, Hera and Artemis (Coldstream 2003: 327-332). However in the Geometric period we find that the swastika can be found, especially, with images of Artemis.....but it also gives us proof in the it being used in association with deities,.....Now Artemis is not the only goddess we see associated with the swastika, in this example we see it associated with, what one might presume, to be Demeter....We have seen it being used in association with deities, animals, mythology and people https://learning-history.com/greek-goddess-artemis/ https://www.greecehighdefinition.com/blog/2019/1/22/ancient-greek-origins-of-the-swastika-in-archaic-greece This person in the video also says that the swastika is associated with the sun and idols calling them "the gods", luck, victory etc. It does not seem to be just decoration without meaning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnsEBTL5mZc How accurate is all this I can not verify. ..................................................... Floor Mosaic Depicting Dionysos's Discovery of Ariadne on Naxos Roman, probably from Syria Roman 3rd to 4th centuries Stone tesserae in mortar https://www.miho.jp/booth/html/artcon/00001755e.htm https://pbase.com/dosseman/dionysostriumf (2nd c. AD) Dionysos, Nike & Maenad (Bakche) - Zeugma mosaic - Triumph of Dionysus (Gaziantep Museum - Turkey) This pavement comes from the House of Poseidon. 1.https://www.flickr.com/photos/28433765@N07/50616496196 2.https://pbase.com/dosseman/dionysostriumf 3.https://pbase.com/dosseman/image/170042225 4.https://pbase.com/dosseman/daedalus https://assaffeller.com/%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%92%D7%99%D7%94/%D7%A4%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%A1%D7%99-%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%A1-%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%96%D7%99%D7%90%D7%95%D7%9F-%D7%91%D7%90%D7%A8%D7%93%D7%95 Triumph of Neptune and Amphitrite, mosaic from Utica, Tunisia, Roman civilization, 3rd-4th century AD, Detail https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/noartistknown/triumph-of-neptune-and-amphitrite-mosaic-from-utica-tunisia-roman-civilization-3rd-4th-century-ad/nomedium/asset/2569228 https://assaffeller.com/%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%92%D7%99%D7%94/%D7%A4%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%A1%D7%99-%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%A1-%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%96%D7%99%D7%90%D7%95%D7%9F-%D7%91%D7%90%D7%A8%D7%93%D7%95 Swastika and halo in the pagan culture - also found in the Christian iconography in later time some sources say - 4 th c. AD - catacombs of Commodilla is one of the first images of Christ with a halo around his head. This is just to show that there seems to be adoption of pagan elements in later Christianity. ------------------------------------------------------------- ENGLISH T**he ancient Christian Church adopted the Greek "gamma cross," giving it the meaning of salvation.** The swastika is found in paintings of early Christian catacombs, on medieval tombstones, and on priestly vestments of the 12th-14th centuries. The swastika is present in the mosaic covering the floor of the Basilica of the Nativity in Bethlehem. It is depicted among fragments of the oldest mosaic floor, preserved from the original basilica from the time of Emperor Constantine the Great and his mother Helena (the church was founded in the 320s by order of Emperor Constantine). Inside the swastika is a square, in the center of which is an inscription: Greek ΪΧΘΥΣ - "fish", this word was used in early Christian symbolism as an abbreviation: "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior." https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0#%D0%A5%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE Basilica of the Nativity, Bethlehem, Palestine, 4th century. The 4th-century floor mosaics. https://ru.pinterest.com/pin/223843043964727318/ https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0#%D0%A5%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE https://vp-sssr.ru/download/works/35/k-voprosu-o-zaprete-ekstremistskoi-simvoliki.pdf Saint Sophia Cathedral in Kyiv. Altar mosaic https://tehlib.com/arhitektura/sofijskij-sobor-v-kieve/ Crux Gammata. Mosaic of the Saint Sophia Cathedral of Kiev, 11th century AD. https://irenecaesar.wordpress.com/tag/%D1%81%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%B2-%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B8/ Lalibela, Ethiopia, with a Cross, which consists of the multiplied Gammadion / Gammadia. [The Crux Gammata is the Tetragrammaton](https://irenecaesar.wordpress.com/tag/%D1%81%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%B2-%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B8/) Also the equal armed cross as seen on the processional Coptic cross. https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/112650/is-the-equal-armed-cross-apostolic-unwritten-tradition-according-to-the-orthodox The links are shared only because of the images as sources. I don't guarantee the accurateness of the information. This is just what I see on the interned and it seems that swastika is even used on processional crosses. There can be also seen a Latin cross in the form of swastika the sources say 11 c. AD. It seems that there is some meaning in the swastika it is not just an ornament from this what I see if the information is correct. Also ΪΧΘΥΣ in the center of the swastika.

Is there any historical evidence that the early church believed in the divinity of Jesus? What about the **first century**? What about the **second century** (and so on)? Was the belief in the divinity of Jesus widespread? Was it the norm or the exception? Can we find reliable answers to these questions in the historical records? Answers to this question should provide clear unambiguous evidence of post-New Testament writings which teach the divinity of Jesus.

Since the time canon was formed, when did the teaching that salvation can still be obtained by people after their physical death first appear in Christianity?

Are there catholic writings of popes, bishops or catholic church fathers that mention Anne the mother of Saint Mary or narratives from the Protoevangelium of James before its condemnation? Did the ancient catholic church believe that Anne was mother of Saint Mary before the condemnation of the Protoevangelium of James? Some may say that the condemnation of the apocrypha does not mean that they did not believe Anne was mother of Saint Mary, because this could be an unwritten tradition of the church, but the question is if there are written ancient church sources that can prove that, they believed that Anne was mother of Saint Mary and that this idea did not come from the Protoevangelium of James, but from parallel unwritten tradition? > "condemned by Pope Innocent I in 405 and classified as apocryphal by > the Gelasian Decree around AD 500, became a widely influential source > for Mariology." - [Gospel of James](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_James) How would condemned apocrypha become "influential source for Mariology"? Thanks in advance. ------------------------------------------------------------------- **In the East: Probably mentioning the Protevangelium of James** **(c. 375 AD) Ephiphanius of Salamis - Panarion - against collyridians 8** **Pdf page 641:** > For the age-old error of forgetting the living God and worshiping his > creatures will not get the better of me. (4) They served and worshiped > the creature more than the creator,” and “were made fools.”14 If it is > not his will that angels be worshiped, how much more the woman born of > Ann,15 who was given to **Ann by Joachim**16 and granted to her father and > mother by promise, after prayer and all diligence? She was surely not > born other than normally, but of a man’s seed and a woman’s womb like > everyone else. (5) For even though the story and traditions of Mary > say that her father Joachim was told in the wilderness, “Your wife has > conceived,”17 it was not because this had come about without conjugal > intercourse or a man’s seed. The angel who was sent to him predicted > the coming event, so that there would be no doubt. The thing had truly > happened, had already been decreed by God, and had been promised to > the righteous. 12 John 13:23. 13 Cf. Act. John 108–115. 14 Rom 1:25; > 22. 15 Cf. Protevangelium of James 4.1–3. 16 Cf. Protevangelium of James 4.1–3. 17 Cf. Protevangelium of James 4.2. https://ia800501.us.archive.org/18/items/EpiphaniusPanarionBksIIIII1/Epiphanius%20-%20_Panarion_%20-%20Bks%20II%20%26%20III%20-%201.pdf **The book Panarion:** > It was written in Koine Greek beginning in 374 or 375, and issued > about three years later,1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panarion

Which early church fathers (pre 500) taught it was possible for a person after their death to hear and receive salvation in Christ Jesus? We know some groups teach the necessity of water baptism to be saved. So for example, for them, a baby born but not baptized would be consigned to hell. Who taught it is possible to be saved even after one died, rather than go to and stay in hell for all eternity?

I'm interested in whether there was an early Church Father who ***explicitly*** drew the connection that Trinitarians commonly draw today: the connection between Jesus' "**I am**" statement, found in **John 8:58** and God Almighty calling Himself the "**I am**" in **Exodus 3:14**. I would be interested in any Trinitarian answer that holds on to the Chalcedonian creeds. **When did the Church start drawing this connection?** I couldn't find such an **explicit** reference to such a connection being made by any of the 1st to 3rd-century Church Fathers in my research and am wondering if I'm missing something.

I was doing some research and even though could find different resources on devotion to Mary, Mary as the mother of God, I couldn't find anything useful about Mary as mediatrix / "to Jesus through Mary". What did the early church fathers have to say about it?

Did any of the Church Fathers write explicitly on the connection between the Church and the New Jerusalem. Did any say that the Church *IS* the New Jerusalem? If so, in a nutshell, what did they say? Can anyone point me to specific resources? Thank you.

1. [Anastasis • Resurrection](https://dzen.ru/a/ZXNFALUrMW9CfeYc) https://www.pravenc.ru/text/2459015.html 2. I am not really sure if this is Christian. Some say it is. https://herculaneum.uk/Ins%205/Herculaneum%205%2015%20p4.htm 3. https://www.livescience.com/42761-ancient-church-mosaics-uncovered-israel.html 3. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croix_(christianisme) 4. https://www.pravenc.ru/text/2459015.html 5. [Mosaics of the Basilica, mid-6th century CE, inside the Memorial Church of Moses, Mount Nebo, Jordan](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mosaics_of_the_Basilica,_mid-6th_century_CE,_inside_the_Memorial_Church_of_Moses,_Mount_Nebo,_Jordan.jpg) Why are there so many cross variants, and are there ancient writers that describes them? Why do we see so rare in the early time the standard latin cross without enlarged ends? But instead we see with enlarged ends. Thanks in advance.

In c. A.D. 189, St. Irenaeus wrote: > Since, however, it would be very tedious . . . to reckon up the successions of all the churches, we put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vanity, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings, by indicating that Tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and **universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul**; also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every church agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, because the apostolic Tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere [*Against Heresies* 3:3:2] Why did St. Irenaeus say the Church was founded and organized in Rome by Peter and Paul? I'd understand if he was speaking of the lowercase 'c' church in Rome, but he spoke of "the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church," so—correct me if I'm wrong—he was speaking of the entire Church rather than the singular church in Rome. So what does he mean exactly?