Cessation of suffering is the main goal of Buddhism, but is cessation of suffering the end goal or does Buddhism pursue Joy beyond end of suffering?
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I ask the above because Socrates in the Republic has proven that the cessation of suffering is a quietude of the mind, an illusion or a jugglery not real. What we should we aim according to him is not the end of suffering which is a quietude, but true Joy.
Quoted below is form the Republic ... *( i have added [mind] next to Soul to ease the reading for those who detest the idea of the soul; i think, the soul in Socratic tradition is akin to mind in Buddist ideas, but that in itself is a long discussion ..)*
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> Say, then, is not pleasure opposed to pain?
>
> True. And there is a neutral state which is neither pleasure nor
> pain?
>
> There is.
>
> A state which is intermediate, and a sort of repose of the [mind] soul about
> either --that is what you mean?
>
> Yes.
>
> You remember what people say when they are sick?
>
> What do they say?
>
> That after all nothing is pleasanter than health. But then they never
> knew this to be the greatest of pleasures until they were ill.
>
> Yes, I know, he said.
>
> And when persons are suffering from acute pain, you must. have heard
> them say that there is nothing pleasanter than to get rid of their
> pain?
>
> I have.
>
> And there are many other cases of suffering in which the mere rest and
> cessation of pain, and not any positive enjoyment, is extolled by them
> as the greatest pleasure?
>
> Yes, he said; at the time they are pleased and well content to be at
> rest.
>
> Again, when pleasure ceases, that sort of rest or cessation will be
> painful?
>
> Doubtless, he said.
>
> Then the intermediate state of rest will be pleasure and will also be
> pain?
>
> So it would seem.
>
> But can that which is neither become both?
>
> I should say not.
>
> And both pleasure and pain are motions of the [mind] soul, are they not?
> Yes.
>
> But that which is neither was just now shown to be rest and not
> motion, and in a mean between them?
>
> Yes.
>
> How, then, can we be right in supposing that the absence of pain is
> pleasure, or that the absence of pleasure is pain?
>
> Impossible.
>
> This then is an appearance only and not a reality; that is to say, the
> rest is pleasure at the moment and in comparison of what is painful,
> and painful in comparison of what is pleasant; but all these
> representations, when tried by the test of true pleasure, are not real
> but a sort of imposition?
>
> That is the inference.
>
> Look at the other class of pleasures which have no antecedent pains
> and you will no longer suppose, as you perhaps may at present, that
> pleasure is only the cessation of pain, or pain of pleasure.
>
> What are they, he said, and where shall I find them? There are many
> of them: take as an example the pleasures, of smell, which are very
> great and have no antecedent pains; they come in a moment, and when
> they depart leave no pain behind them.
>
> Most true, he said.
>
> Let us not, then, be induced to believe that pure pleasure is the
> cessation of pain, or pain of pleasure.
>
> No.
>
> Still, the more numerous and violent pleasures which reach the [mind] soul
> through the body are generally of this sort --they are reliefs of
> pain.
>
> That is true.
>
> And the anticipations of future pleasures and pains are of a like
> nature?
>
> Yes.
>
> Shall I give you an illustration of them?
>
> Let me hear.
>
> You would allow, I said, that there is in nature an upper and lower
> and middle region?
>
> I should.
>
> And if a person were to go from the lower to the middle region, would
> he not imagine that he is going up; and he who is standing in the
> middle and sees whence he has come, would imagine that he is already
> in the upper region, if he has never seen the true upper world?
>
> To be sure, he said; how can he think otherwise?
>
> But if he were taken back again he would imagine, and truly imagine,
> that he was descending?
>
> No doubt.
>
> All that would arise out of his ignorance of the true upper and middle
> and lower regions?
>
> Yes.
>
> Then can you wonder that persons who are inexperienced in the truth,
> as they have wrong ideas about many other things, should also have
> wrong ideas about pleasure and pain and the intermediate state; so
> that when they are only being drawn towards the painful they feel pain
> and think the pain which they experience to be real, and in like
> manner, when drawn away from pain to the neutral or intermediate
> state, they firmly believe that they have reached the goal of satiety
> and pleasure; they, not knowing pleasure, err in contrasting pain with
> the absence of pain. which is like contrasting black with grey instead
> of white --can you wonder, I say, at this?
>
>No, indeed; I should be much more disposed to wonder at the opposite.
>....
Asked by user12965
(43 rep)
Jan 29, 2018, 08:15 PM
Last activity: Feb 13, 2018, 12:35 PM
Last activity: Feb 13, 2018, 12:35 PM