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Some questions on the Aggivacchasutta

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In the Aggivacchasutta (MN 72 ), the Buddha responds to Vacchagotta’s inquiry about the status of a tathāgata after the attainment of cessation by invoking the simile of a fire that has become quenched due to the exhaustion of its fuel:- > “But Vaccha, suppose they were to ask you: ‘This fire in front of you > that is quenched: in what direction did it go—east, south, west, or > north?’ How would you answer?” > > “It doesn’t apply, worthy Gotama. The fire depended on grass and logs > as fuel. When that runs out, and no more fuel is added, the fire is > reckoned to have become quenched due to lack of fuel.” > > “In the same way, Vaccha, any form by which a realized one might be > described has been given up, cut off at the root, made like a palm > stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future. A realized one > is freed from reckoning in terms of form. They’re deep, immeasurable, > and hard to fathom, like the ocean. **‘They’re reborn’, ‘they’re not > reborn’, ‘they’re both reborn and not reborn’, ‘they’re neither reborn > nor not reborn’—none of these apply.** > > Any feeling … perception … choices … consciousness by which a realized > one might be described has been given up, cut off at the root, made > like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future. A > realized one is freed from reckoning in terms of consciousness. > They’re deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom, like the ocean. > **‘They’re reborn’, ‘they’re not reborn’, ‘they’re both reborn and not > reborn’, ‘they’re neither reborn nor not reborn’—none of these apply.”** I have questions about how this functions at a technical level within early Buddhist thought. 1. If the aggregates are indeed the sole conditions under which an individual can emerge and be identified, what is the precise significance of the Buddha’s negation of all four alternatives - reborn, not reborn, both, and neither? 2. Is the primary function of this passage to dissolve only to speculative fixation that obstructs liberation, or does it also imply a principled metaphysical account of why post-liberation or even post-mortem identity claims fail at the level of causal analysis? 3. Does the fire simile warrant the conclusion that once causal supports or aggregates are exhausted, questions framed in terms of existence or non-existence become category errors rather than unanswered questions?
Asked by Guanyin (149 rep)
Feb 4, 2026, 08:20 AM
Last activity: Feb 4, 2026, 10:21 AM