Sample Header Ad - 728x90

How to "abandon the fetters completely"?

3 votes
5 answers
765 views
I was thinking about [this comment](https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/28545/as-a-buddhist-how-shall-we-make-sense-of-the-notion-that-there-is-no-such-thing#comment47970_28548) ... > Yes, my target is to abandon the three fetters completely. I can make sense of 'Doubt' and 'grasping at precepts+practices', getting rid of the identity view is the hardest. ... and wondering about what "completely" means. I thought [this answer](https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/a/9424/254) implies that identity view (abandoned at first stage) and conceit (abandoned at last stage) are somewhat on a continuum. In the context of the four stages of enlightenment would it be right to say that, without identity-view, there's no such thing as an "enlightened person": instead there are maybe "enlightened moments" or moments of enlightenment? I think that the Abhidhamma talks of "moments" (thought-moments), but that the suttas don't, so ... (knowing little of the Abhidhamma) I'm not sure whether this ("enlightened moments") is a good description. There was [also this](https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/a/28506/254) ... > The definition of a path is: A virtuous mind conjoined with renunciation. ... which, put me in mind of different moments (places, instants) along a path. If "enlightened moments" *is* a good metaphor e.g. for a sotapanna, I was wondering what the difference is between that and the "higher" stages of enlightenment -- and how to achieve or progress towards those, what (what practice and/or realization) is required? Is it right to say that the difference is more a matter of degree than a matter of kind? Something [like](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_enlightenment#Path_and_Fruit) ... > - A Once-returner (Sakadagami) has greatly attenuated: 4. Sensual desire 5. Ill will - A Non-returner (Anāgāmi) is free from: 4. Sensual desire 5. Ill will ... suggests this may be gradual, progressive? Does the "dhamma-eye" being associated with stream entry imply that "the Dhamma" is already seen at that stage, and thence can only become more ever-present (more of the same)? Is it 'only' that 'enlightened moments' become more continual, regular, longer, normal, without intervals? If that's so then is that related to so-called "mindfulness" -- which I imagine might mean "the ability to (more or less continually) remember the dhamma" and also "guarding the senses (to avoid getting carried away)". So, lastly, why does [Right Concentration (*samma samadhi*)](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-samadhi/index.html) talk exclusively about [jhanas](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-samadhi/jhana.html) ? Are they, how and/or why are they, at what point or stage are they, relevant and necessary for any (further) progress? Can you outline any connection between practising jhanas and living/acting/thinking in the world? Or are they unrelated, is a "seclusion" the only path and the ultimate goal (or at least through, i.e. up to and including, non-returner)?
Asked by ChrisW (48353 rep)
Aug 8, 2018, 03:43 PM
Last activity: Aug 9, 2018, 06:34 PM